Christ Without Christendom

2/17/2023

I have never lived in Christendom, and to the best of my knowledge, no Christian alive today has. To claim that such-and-such country in the West was -- until very recently -- a part of Christendom or even a Christian country is delusional.

Sure, Christianity continued to influence some aspects of culture and society in some Western countries until about the Second World War -- maybe even up to about the 1960s in some places -- but it would be a stretch to refer to the influence of this sum of "somes" as Christendom or as characteristics of a so-called Christian country.

Christendom is behind us -- far behind us. Same goes for Christian nations. Furthermore, I doubt that I will ever live in a Christian nation or in any kind of Christendom in my lifetime. My son's lifetime? Who knows? Maybe -- but probably not. Same goes for his kids.

Bleak outlook? Well, it depends on one's perspective. If Christianity depends on things like Christian nations and Christendom, then the outlook is bleak indeed.

However, if one can separate Christ from nations and a grouping of nations, then the outlook brightens considerably.

There is no Christendom. There are no Christian nations. There is only Christ.

And if you stop and think about it -- really think about it -- you might begin to see this as a blessing, not a curse.

14 Comments

Immobody00

2/18/2023 05:56:09

Well, by their fruits you shall know them. See the fruits of Christian nations and non-Christian nations. I don't have to rely on history books: when I was a kid, my country (Spain) was a Christian nation under the regime of general Franco.Catholicism was the official religion The vast majority of people were Catholic, seminaries were full and we exported priests to Latin America, families were united, streets were safe, people were reasonably happy..

Fast forward 40 years later, Spain is a non-Christian nation, majority of non-religious people, zoophilia has been legalized this week, we are pioneers in all kinds of degeneracy, schools and media are centers of woke indoctrination, crosses are being demolished, with 52 years old I am often the youngest person in the mass followed by 80 years olds, world record of antidepressants, illegal drugs, divorces and abortion, the lowest birth rate Muslims are replacing us, laws are anti-Christian and anti-human, such as the recent transgender law.

With blessings like that, who needs curses?

Our religion is the most popular religion in the world and the only religion that is not official in any country in the world. There are Muslims countries, a country where Judaism is the official religion and Buddhist countries and so on. No country that is officially Christian: they have liberalusm as official religion.

What brainy people like you and me miss is that most people are not like us. Most people don't have an original thought in their life. Most people are sheep: this is why they need a Good Shepherd
We are not a Republic of Philosophers.

People follow the leaders of their society. If the State is Christian, these leaders will be Christian and most people will be Christian. If the State is woke, the same with woke religion. This is why the conversion of Constantine eventually produced the conversion of the Roman Empire. This is why, in wvery country where Christianity stops being the official religion it quickly becames a residual force

Brainy people like you and me

Francis Berger

2/18/2023 08:07:10

@ imnobody00 -

"Most people are sheep: this is why they need a Good Shepherd."

Yes, and the decision to follow the Good Shepherd must now wholly arise from free internal motivations rather than imposed external factors. I don't believe this free internal motivation depends on high IQ or intelligence.

bruce g charlton

2/18/2023 09:29:10

It is a valuable distinction - Christ and Christendom; and it's why I feel the Fourth Gospel has (for me) suddenly been revealed as exactly what we most need; because (aside from a very few - which I regard as later additions - by some other author); that gospel does not envisage a formal church - let alone Christendom.

We seem to be in a situation of End Times, where church-led Christianity; since All the major churches are -as Imnobody describes for the RCC - feeble, corrupt, and disappearing.

So we must develop direct and individual forms of Christianity, or be sucked-into corruption.

But, I think this is also what God wants from us, at this time and place in history.

People are different nowadays, and even if (somehow) Christendom, and Christian nations were re-established - as may perhaps happen, albeit probably uniquely, in the Fire Nation? - such societal Christianity would not have the strength and depth that was possible in some times and places of the past.

On the potentially plus side, the crazy unreality which modern people are believing and living-by, shows us that people nowadays are 'creating their own reality' - albeit evil and fake realities.

Yet this does, I think, tell us that people can (instead of evil) choose to believe the truth, and make that truth real in their own lives, and live-by-it *spiritually* - even in despite of the pressures of society.

As I say, it's a question of choice, which depends on motivation. Modern people at present mostly choose to believe that the world is meaningless, purposeless and indifferent - but any individual person can choose the truth instead, at any moment - and nothing in this world can prevent it.

Luke

2/18/2023 14:52:21

In conversations with christian folks who like to claim the US is a christian country I used to retort "not since 1973", but as you point out christianity as a governing force was already dead and buried by then.

Brian

2/18/2023 19:26:30

Your 2nd to last paragraph (There is no Christendom….) reminded me of something Vox Day wrote recently… “
There is no such thing as a secular society. Secularism is just a meaningless line on the gradient between Christianity and devil worship.

Lady Mermaid link

2/19/2023 21:59:04

This brings to mind a recent discussion on New World Island about the heavy responsibility of individual discernment and how this path may not necessarily be for most people how we can help the majority who do not have the strength to resist the system.

Immobody00 raises a valid point on how most people do not have fixed morality. Witness how quickly public opinion or the Overton window changes. This doesn't make normies evil; it's a fact that there will always be more followers than leaders. Christ referred to people as sheep. This is not meant to be an insult, just a description of reality. A lot of Christian conversions happened when the king or clan chief converted using his own individual discernment. The people followed b/c they trusted that their leaders were acting in good faith.

However, Bruce accurately points out that today's institutions are fully corrupted. Following one's leader whether it be in the church or nation without individual discernment in today's world will lead to destruction.

This is a hard truth b/c I do believe that individual Christianity is a spirituality for mature adults. Most people may not be able to handle that level of responsibility. Jesus did warn that the road to destruction is broad.

This doesn't mean that we're to become arrogant like the Pharisees. However, we may need to be more patient w/ those who are caught in the lies of the system. We need to pray on their behalf and be willing to serve as a bridge so people will choose salvation at their death despite the unprecedented demonic assaults.

While the pre 1914 Christendom is gone forever, perhaps individual Christians can lead masses of people to revival. This doesn't invalidate the need for individual conversion and discernment. Rather, "romantic Christianity" may be a leadership type of spirituality. Jesus compared the Kingdom of Heaven to a mustard seed; a very small seed that grows immensely. Now things will probably get worse before they improve. However, a small number of people can use their influence for good. Christendom may be reborn from a small minority of people who lovingly lead people back to God.

Anti-Gnostic

2/20/2023 04:08:21

Christianity is not tenable without a Christendom. It basically becomes a gnostic, middle-aged book club.

2/20/2023 04:13:01

This attitude is what I call the Church Juvenile. Like we're all supposed to retreat to the catacombs and wait for extinction as opposed to what the Christians who were taught by the Christians who were taught by Christ actually did.

If the purpose of Christianity is not to establish a safe space to raise Christian families, then Christians should just kill themselves to speed their accession to their Heavenly reward.

Ingemar

2/20/2023 22:58:40

That was never the purpose of Christianity, and your refusal to come to terms with this says more about you than the failure of the faith.

2/22/2023 05:18:07

My comment was sloppily worded. The purpose of Christianity is to attain theosis. I cannot imagine that the process of theosis encompasses active surrender to the atheistic State for the sake of our secular democratic Constitution (i.e., atheism).

So if we are not to surrender, then the task at hand is to get a safe space in which to be Christian and raise Christian families, and to keep out the atheistic State. What is the basis for your disagreement?

2/22/2023 05:20:49

Also, do you understand how grim your concluding phrase is? The faith has failed. The State has been acknowledged by the literal successors to the Apostles as the head of the Church.

2/22/2023 16:20:12

OK, Denethor.

NLR

2/22/2023 23:26:50

The old has weakened but whatever new may come is either not here yet or not noticeable by most.

We just have to get through this era and there's no guarantee that we'll all be alive at the end of it. But we can ensure that we get through spiritually.

That being said, will all the old things be destroyed all the way? Will all such groups completely diminish. Maybe not. Perhaps some will be preserved though diminished from the past and perhaps from them may come seeds that will lead to something else.

So, two strategies are to preserve what's good from the old and look for what the new might be. And both can be pursued concurrently.

lea

2/27/2023 09:03:40

Spirituality does not require a nation or institutions, but a certain degree of freedom is required to make the most of it. There are obviously examples of people defying the 'odds' under severely opressive circumstances but that is no reason to invite those back in. It seems like no one values freedom anymore beyond some very arbitrary and superficial interpretations of the word, but the real test of it all is yet to come i fear. Mass psychology being such a fickle thing i would not dare predict the next year let alone more.

The key thing that scares me about the sting operation years is how incredibly easy it appears for alot of people to revert to 'Das leben der anderen'. As before i've come to think the narrow path simply means a level of discernment/ general intelligence/ empathy in various doses (pun intended?). And maybe most posters on this blog are also slightly above the bell curve/ naturally less prone to nonsense/ not as exposed to propaganda/ you name it.

First of all though, re-spiritualization needs to happen. The belief that life is a disposable, meaningless, single-cycle thing is probably the most destructive of all.

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