Christianity is Finished If It Does Not Reassert Itself as a Worldly Power

6/9/2023

I don’t subscribe to the title of this post. It merely echoes a postulation I keep encountering.

The position is easy to grasp. If Christianity cannot – does not – reassert itself as a worldly power and re-establish some semblance of social/cultural dominance, then Christianity is effectively over, and nothing of Christianity will remain save for a few wild-eyed desert fathers, incurable holy fools, and scattered pockets of quietism.

Whenever I contemplate this “Christianity must assert itself in the world again, or else” position, I am reminded of a passage from Berdyaev’s Freedom and Spirit concerning the Crucified and worldly power (bold added):

The natural man, obsessed by the forces of the external world, sees nothing in the Crucified but a man suffering torture and humiliation, and the consequent defeat and annihilation of truth so far as this world is concerned.

Divine truth seems to be powerless. Is it possible that God can appear here below not as power forcibly transfiguring and overcoming life, but as crucified and to all appearance impotent when confronted with the forces of this world?

It was here that the Jewish people were led astray by refusing to recognize in the figure of the Crucified the expected Messiah and Son of God. The true Messiah, according to them, must appear in power and glory, and by founding a powerful Kingdom of Israel end the existence of suffering and evil.

The Cross of Calvary was a stumbling block for the Jews and remains so to this day for most of the Aryan race as well, for they expect the manifestation of truth in power and the victory of truth in the visible world.

This temptation means nothing more nor less than a denial of all freedom of spirit, an inability and even a refusal to see, beyond material humiliation and defeat, the invisible spiritual triumph of divine truth.

The coming of the Son of God and the Messiah in His power and glory as the King of the world and conqueror would have been the end of the freedom of the human spirit and the realization of the Kingdom of God by means of necessity and compulsion.

16 Comments

bruce g charlton

6/9/2023 21:48:15

A good quote from B!

From reading WmJas on the subject - I nowadays feel that the Jews were correct that Jesus was not so much a different kind of Messiah than expected, as not a Messiah at all.

But then, the Messiah seems to have been just another Good King (much like a real life Kind Alfred or a mythical Arthur), who temporarily alleviates a few of the problems of this life and world for a specific group (and at the expense of other groups); but leaves the fundamental problems of mortality, sin and 'entropy' untouched.

Jesus actually offered something qualitatively different and vastly superior to even the best imaginable Good King, in that it is a permanent answer to the fundamental problems of life: but in the next world, and not this one - because here there can, in principle, only ever be evanescent palliatives.

But the business of whether Jesus was The Messiah or not, is a red herring IMO. It did not matter ultimately whether Jesus was a Jew in Palestine, or something else from somewhere else.

What Jesus did - by enabling resurrection and making Heaven possible - did not depend on race or place - and was for all Men of all eras.

Hoyos

6/9/2023 21:56:13

I mean my first thought really comes down to “is that what God is leading you to do?”

Even when I’ve asked if this subject has been prayed over and been told “yes”, I’m skeptical. If God doesn’t lead you, give you the go ahead, everything is doomed to fail.

As I recall Jeremiah was thrown in jail as a “collaborator” when the message was that the Jews should surrender to the Babylonians. In the historical books, there are times where the armies of Israel did not ask to go up and got defeated, even times when God said go up and they still got defeated.

We’re thinking worldly thoughts, Christianity isn’t a dry proposition that we use to get some other good, Christ is real. It may not have the certainty of scripture, we may get it wrong, but our actions have to proceed from following God’s leading, only He can actually do the math.

Carol

6/9/2023 22:00:33

I don't think that it's even possible for "Christianity" to "Reassert Itself as a Worldly Power", nor do I think it is meant to...
And I agree with what you've quoted from Berdyaev here...but...

It seems to me that there's been a fundamental shift in "this world" (both materially & spiritually) since Berdyaev was alive -
- specifically in that with all the demonic deception perpetrated here, there seems very little "freedom of the human spirit" remaining.

How can the "human spirit" truly be said to be 'free' in those people who are so deceived (by propaganda, manipulation, childhood programming, etc.) that they don't even know how deceived they are?

It seems to me that in these times "The coming of the Son of God and the Messiah in His power and glory" (or His 'return' in this case), would not be about 'conquering' and "the realization of the Kingdom of God by means of necessity and compulsion" -

- at least, not as "conquerer" of humanity, but rather He must 'return' in order to bring renewed "freedom of the human spirit" by over powering the (literal) forces of evil which (quite genuinely) threaten to make slaves (both material & spiritual) of humankind.

And I can easily imagine that if Berdyaev were alive today, he would certainly be perceptive enough to agree.

Adam Piggott link

6/10/2023 08:04:14

You are free to be deceived or not to be deceived. Just because someone achieved a poor outcome does not mean that they were not free.
You are free to choose, you are free to be deceived, you are free to wake up and smell the roses. Keep in mind that the vast majority of people who are presently deceived do not want to hear any evidence to the contrary. They are willingly choosing to remain in their life of being comfortably numb.
God wants us to freely choose, despite all of the obstacles placed in front of us whether by ourselves or outside agents. What I assume that he doesn't want is heaven stuffed full of a bunch of sycophants who only got there because they didn't have a choice.

6/10/2023 18:46:17

I absolutely agree with you as far as what "God wants", but the fact is that there are 'powers' in this world actively and successfully working against God's will...
And those 'powers' have indeed created situations which 'cheat' humans of their free will.
I'm not only talking about those who've been "deceived"....think about the insane. Can you really say that (for example) a person who was so abused in childhood as to reach adulthood in a state of utter insanity genuinely has free will?

I've been about as close to 'insane' as a sane person can get, having suffered episodes of severe, Major Depression -
- and I can assure you that it is absolutely possible to be in such a state of hopelessness, such oppressing darkness, that you cannot even imagine God 'could' exist, much less that He does!

When you have walked in that kind of darkness 'after' having 'known' the Love of Christ, and reach a place where everything within you is keening with the despair of His 'seeming' nonexistence -

- then, you can make such assertions about how 'everyone' is always "free to choose" faith in God.

You need to think more broadly - when I used the term "deceived" in my prior comment, I didn't just mean deceived 'informationally' -
- that's why I included "childhood programming" among the means of 'deception'.
I have quite literally existed in a state of Depression so utterly bound in darkness, that I know what it is to mourn my own spirit - and let me assure you, there is no free will whatsoever in that.

It is by God's Grace, and God's Grace alone and no 'free will' decision of mine, that I was pulled through that darkness far enough to glimpse Light again -
- and in my having been literally "deceived" out of my faith by Depression, I have come to the point where my prayer for all those stuck under the 'spell' of deception is, "Lord, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Amazing Grace....it's in the lyrics..."I once was lost, but now am found, was bound, but now am free."

Kristor link

6/10/2023 00:56:42

Christianity is finished as a worldly power. It has been so from the get go: My kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36.

NB nevertheless: that Christendom is not of this world does not mean that there cannot be a worldly Christendom, with kings, knights, and so forth. And lawyers and bureaucrats, even. And of course deacons, priests, bishops, popes. And bank accounts, real estate, taxing authority, and so forth. Even navies, missiles, terrible swift swords. On the contrary.

The worlds above have ingression to our own at every point, or else they are practically irrelevant. Which, since they are the bases of our own world, cannot be the case.

That the kingdom of Jesus is not of this world means rather only that Christendom must be first and only a kingdom not of this world, in order to exert any worldly effect whatever that is properly Christian.

For Christianity to try to grasp the reins of worldly power would be then to put the cart before the horse. Christianity must rather be so compelling as a vision fundamentally ordered to the entire stack of worlds above this one - the heavens, rank upon rank - that the princes of this world *want* above all other things to be Christian kings.

A Christianity properly and firmly ordered to and by the Beatific Vision can have all sorts of worldly powers and riches and stuff, and still (within the limits of human concupiscence) be properly ordered to the rest of the world. This, in just the way that a human life ordered first to the Most High can be *also* chock full of worldly riches and successes (counting the successes of such as St. Francis and of Mother Teresa as having a worldly salient), all in their due and proper order. Bearing in mind that it might just as well, or perhaps even more likely, find itself persecuted by the worldly powers (this was so for many of the saints; perhaps most).

Let's face it: one of the ways we can be fairly confident that we witness to Christ is to find ourselves martyrs for so doing.

As for whether Jesus is the Messiah, Peter said he was. Peter knew a lot better than any of us could know these days about what the Messiah meant to the 1st century Jews. And Peter actually knew the guy; ate with him, camped out by the side of the road with him, scrounged food with him, heard him preach and saw him work miracles, and so forth. That's good enough for me.

What more in a witness could I want, forsooth?

Francis Berger

6/10/2023 20:31:59

@ Kristor - "For Christianity to try to grasp the reins of worldly power would be then to put the cart before the horse. Christianity must rather be so compelling as a vision fundamentally ordered to the entire stack of worlds above this one - the heavens, rank upon rank - that the princes of this world *want* above all other things to be Christian kings."

Yes, I agree. This entails the compelling vision be based on a freely chosen inner transformation that is independent of external forces and puts first things first and second things second.

6/10/2023 01:41:40

PS: Berdyaev writes that, “The coming of the Son of God and the Messiah in His power and glory as the King of the world and conqueror would have been the end of the freedom of the human spirit and the realization of the Kingdom of God by means of necessity and compulsion.”

In the first place, it is clear that the Second Coming Berdyaev speaks of has not yet happened. When it does, all the acts of this world shall of course be wound up and finished altogether, forever.
Does that event signal the end of human freedom? Why? I mean, necessity does necessitate, to be sure; but why does the Second Coming – which scripture tells us is really going to happen – entail the end of human freedom? The Kingdom is what it is, from before and as the foundation of all worlds. Our choice now and forever – now, ergo forever, should we be so unlucky as to die in the next few moments – is whether to join in it as patriots. The choice to do otherwise would not constitute an end to human freedom. On the contrary, it would be a fulfillment thereof. God does not end freedom for those who freely choose to oppose him. On the contrary, he gives them exactly what they have freely chosen for themselves: Hell. This, not because he is a big meanie, but because rejection of God *just is* Hell.

This, in just the way that 2 + 2 *just is* 4. Necessity is not and cannot be brought about – cannot be made true – by any historical event. On the contrary, all historical events presuppose necessity. Necessity is necessary eternally, and necessarily.

I don’t get what Berdyaev is talking about here. I say this as one who is sympathetic to him, and indeed something of a fan.

6/10/2023 20:43:44

@ Kristor - I would say that Berdyaev's angle here is that divine love does not compel. Most people would respond to the external aspects of Jesus returning in a full display of power and glory, and would be awed, perhaps even fearful, thus impairing their ability to freely choose. Berdyaev credits Dostoevsky's The Legend of the Grand Inquisitor for this insight. If Jesus returned as a conquering figure radiating power and glory, people would respond to Miracle, Mystery, and Authority instead of freedom.

On a side note, I don't always fully grasp where B is coming from. His ideas do not always resonate, but I think he has many penetrating insights when it comes to fundamental role of freedom in Christianity.

6/13/2023 02:05:19

Hah! That's reassuring: I'm not the only one who is not always quite sure what Berdyaev is saying! That unsurety seems to me surely to be an index of spiritual genius.

I get the same thing from Dostoevsky, from Tolstoy, from Kierkegaard, and a fortiori from Solovyev and all his ilk, so generously vouchsafed to us. Seems to be a Baltic angle on Christianity (taking Russia as a fundamentally Baltic nation, not just in origin but in orientation - Balts looking back on their heritage and enduring presence in the steppes, and so on. There is in it a spooky authority.

Lots to think about there.

ben

6/10/2023 07:16:04

Heaven isn't an external change but an internal one - a change to the person (becoming incorruptible, physically and spiritually).

In light of this, it makes no sense to imagine a Heavenly King descending into this world to impose a Heavenly Kingdom; what's offered by the Shepherd is a transformation that must be chosen after learning what that transformation would mean by living in this corruptible state first.

Thankfully, there exists a divine psychopomp, who guides to eternal life from a position of 'autodidactic' divinity (this guidance happening both during and after mortal life).

6/10/2023 20:45:51

@ Ben - Good comment!

6/10/2023 14:15:39

The Romantic Christians stress the importance of family and love. But on the other hand, they negate all parental instincts to protect and secure worldly happiness for children. And then they claim God is a parent. Seems incoherent to me.

Love and worldly power go hand in hand.

Ted link

6/10/2023 16:22:08

"The Church’s function is not to adapt Christianity to the world, nor even to adapt the world to Christianity; her function is to maintain a counterworld in the world." - Nicolás Davila

I do believe the Church will be much smaller, but a flame of hope will burn nevertheless.

6/10/2023 20:50:32

@ Ted - I agree with the sentiment expressed in the quote. Unfortunately, most churches appear hellbent on adapting Christianity to the world.

lea

6/12/2023 05:58:26

We either coalesce into the technocratic nightmare or reject wordly powers at large. Collateral damage if you must.

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Christianity is Finished If It Does Not Reassert Itself as a Worldly Power

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