Francis Berger
  • Blog
  • My Work

The Intrinsic Insincerity of the "There Is Nothing Intrinsically Wrong About" Tactic

9/6/2022

15 Comments

 
The “there is nothing intrinsically wrong about _____” position is a common tactic that Smart Boys on the Internet love to employ when they refuse to address an argument but want to make it look as if they are. 

Here’s an example:

A: Gluttony is a sin.
B: You are suggesting that eating is a sin, but eating is not intrinsically sinful. There is nothing wrong about eating in and of itself. 

Here’s another one:

A: The birdemic peck mandates are immoral.
B: Are they? I don’t see anything intrinsically immoral about mandating pecks.
 
It doesn’t take a genius to understand what the Smart Boy is doing.

By widening the scope of the argument from the specific to the general, the Smart Boy aims to obfuscate his unspoken agreement with the original argument and bury it beneath the avalanche of “the larger subject”.

This diversionary tactic puts the other party in the “debate” on the back foot. It draws the person making the argument away from the original argument and propels them toward the much broader but essentially irrelevant "larger subject".

If the other party takes the bait, he will have to address the supposed morality of everything within the scope of the “larger subject”. Instead of arguing the finer points of the specific argument, the other party will inevitably have to argue about the subject in general.

Once the Smart Boy has lured the other party away from the original specific argument, he can liberally apply anything contained within the “general subject” to the debate, thereby further clouding, diluting, and confusing the original specific argument.

For example, instead of permitting the other party to focus on the immorality of the contemporary birdemic peck mandates, the Smart Boy will lead his counterpart to consider the “moral” and successful peck mandates of the past.

I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.

To sum up: The problem with the “there is nothing intrinsically wrong about” tactic lies in its “intrinsic” insincerity.

Instead of sincerely tackling the specific argument, the Smart Boy artfully expands the argument, thereby shifting the focus away from the specific argument and avoiding it entirely.

If the other party engages with the tactic, the Smart Boy can make it look like he has addressed the specific argument without actually having had addressed it at all.
 
As I have already noted, concealment is a big motivation behind “there is nothing intrinsically wrong about”. The Smart Boy wants to minimize or obscure his tacit agreement with the original argument by diluting it in the broth of the “larger issue”.

Whenever I encounter the tactic, I inevitably consider motivation. Needless to say, the motivation I discern is rarely sincere or good, which is why I tend not to engage with Smart Boys who state that "there is nothing intrinsically wrong about . . ." 
15 Comments
WJT link
9/6/2022 13:49:12

Things don’t have to be intrinsically wrong at some level of abstraction to be wrong. They exist as specific instances in a specific context.

Reply
Francis Berger
9/6/2022 14:39:30

@ Wm - "Things don’t have to be intrinsically wrong at some level of abstraction to be wrong."

Precisely! Yet many intentionally deny this truth.

I am always wary of those who refuse to engage in the specific instance in a specific context.

Reply
Bookslinger
9/6/2022 17:47:00

The dilbert.com comic just dealt with this, the "absurd absolutist." September 4, 2022.

Reply
Serhei
9/6/2022 21:03:32

Ironically, that comic has some relevance to Scott Adams yelling at his commentariat that because Scott Adams wasn't able to tell that getting a peck might be a bad idea, no one else should have been able to tell either. Everyone was just guessing.

Reply
Francis Berger
9/6/2022 21:43:20

@ Books @ Serhei - Yes, Vox mentioned that on his blog the other day:

https://voxday.net/2022/09/04/dude-take-the-damn-l/

dave sora
9/6/2022 18:55:18

"there is nothing in itself intrinsically immoral about mandating a vaccine"

Yes there is. The end.

What will the Smart Boi do now?

Reply
buckyinky
9/6/2022 19:11:58

Zippy Catholic has been referenced several times in the original post and in the comments to which you link. He was fond of referring to the place which the virtue of prudence holds in moral decision making, all the while recognizing the reality of intrinsically immoral acts.

It seems you would find accord with what he writes on the subject, particularly in this post from well over a decade ago:

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2006/05/26/imprudential-judgements/

Reply
Francis Berger
9/6/2022 21:38:55

@ buckinky - Before I respond, let me just say I got a real kick out of the Bruce Charlton/Adam Piggot/Star Wars connection you posted over at your site. It's really cute.

https://cuzineedonetwo.wordpress.com/2022/09/02/the-emperor-is-pleased/

Thanks for the Zippy link, but the arguments contained therein are not new to me. They very much mirror Edward Feser's take on the matter. I trust you are familiar with it:

https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2021/10/covid-19-vaccination-is-not-hill-to-die.html

Two points: First, I said nothing about the mandates being intrinsically immoral. To use terms you are familiar with, I treated the mandate issue in that thread as a matter of prudential judgement that "depends on the surrounding facts and circumstances", which means it is possible to know the moral status of the act. In other words, even without knowing all the details, it is possible to know if the choices revealed in connection to the mandate were right or wrong. Abandoning personal discernment and conscience and surrendering to the external pressure of the mandate was the choice. This qualifies as wrong within the scope of prudential judgment. Choosing to subsequently deny the wrongness of going against conscience also qualifies as wrong within the scope of prudential judgment. I understand that Catholics may not see it that way.

As far as the author of said original post was concerned, he did nothing wrong by abandoning his conscience and deferring to the authority of his employer and his bishop after his priest refused to write an exemption for him.

I believe the author would have been spiritually better off by remaining loyal to his initial discernment rather than deferring to external authority. Since he chose otherwise, he should refrain from falsely convincing himself that he did no wrong or that he bears no personal responsibility for his decision. He should repent. I don't see what the "sticking point" is here. What does he have to lose by repenting the fact that he went against his conscience? Once again, I understand that most Catholics and trad Christians do not see it this way (infallible teaching and all that).

Second, the present post criticizes the use of "not intrinsically wrong" or "not intrinsically immoral" as a rhetorical tactic -- one that is often employed to distract from the specific instance/context of a moral argument. In Catholic terms, why bring up "not intrinsically wrong" and apply it to something that may be "prudentially wrong"?

Side note: You trad types should really start thinking a little more about following that inner voice of conscience and taking responsibility for your personal discernment. I don't mean that as an insult, so please don't take it as such.

In the meantime, keep on with the memes, and please let me know if you ever create one featuring me! I'd love to see it!

Reply
buckyinky
9/6/2022 23:34:50

Well, we don't get to know what Zippy would say about the COVID situation because, as you may know, he died a couple years before the COVID stuff began.

That said, Zippy had some pretty major disagreements with Feser, and I would venture to say (subject to qualification in above paragraph regarding Zippy not being around to verify) that he would have disagreed with Feser's judgment on the COVID jabs, and, so I also suspect, on the enforced unreality of the whole COVID show. I referenced the Zippy post mainly because I thought you would find some accord with it - i.e., Ziippy makes it clear that it is a cop out to check out on moral decisions at the level of "not intrinsically evil," as do you. But you seem to be disagreeing with Zippy mostly, though I'm not quite sure.

I have my own side note to offer: Maybe I'm a "trad type" maybe not. I did not subscribe to the COVID show, never wore a mask, never took a jab, and also advised others not to subscribe in any way whenever I thought it prudent to do so. My Catholic faith informed me in this. I do not believe such matters were within the sphere of authority of the bishops, though their authority as such remains as it always has been since the beginning of the Church. I have not engaged with him directly on the matter, but I suspect I wouldn't see eye to eye with Scoot on this.

I'm glad you liked the Star Wars meme! If you subscribe to my blog I think you can set things up to get email notifications of my meager little postings. That way you will know if I ever feature you in a meme. You might bring my total subscribers up to...three! Ha!

Serhei
9/6/2022 23:09:00

I'll need to look for where it is exactly I happened last year across psychologists publicly employing the following line of reasoning almost verbatim:

"The vociferously-unpecked want to get the peck but they are rendered hesitant by the need to live up to their previous statements. Therefore, we need to introduce just enough coercive measures that they can go and voluntarily get the peck and be able to plausibly pretend that they were compelled to do it by their employer / the need to travel / etc."

Reply
Francis Berger
9/7/2022 11:48:39

@ Serhei - Yes, this is extremely important! I'm not sure if you remember, but I noted this about half-a-year ago:

https://www.francisberger.com/blog/they-will-do-everything-in-their-power-to-ensure-the-choice-is-yours

Reply
Francis Berger
9/7/2022 11:42:28

@ buckinky - It's not that I disagree with Zippy's post, it's just that Zippy wrote the post before 2020, and I believe we must re-evaluate everything written before the unprecedented spiritual catastrophe of 2020.

I am relieved to hear that you have kept your wits about you in regards to the birdemic, which I regard as a major litmus test issue of serious Christianity. I am certain you are not the only "trad-type" to have done so and that brings me comfort. There are some in the Church - like Vigano, provided that he is sincere in his observations - who have managed to see through the birdemic lies. That said, the Church and other major Christian churches succumbed to the demonic coup and remain aligned with it today. This poses a major spiritual threat to humble, obedient Christians like your friend Scoot who, though apparently a decent fellow, is unable or unwilling to discern the evil with which he is willingly and actively cooperating. If he's not careful, his choices -- including his resistance to repentance for his choices -- may lead him into damnation. That may come off as sounding harsh, but I don't know how else to put it.

I could go on, but I assume you already know my views. Christians are in uncharted waters today. Relying on externals alone is fraught with hazards. Following Christ today requires looking within, assuming responsibility for our discernment, listening to our conscience, valuing freedom over obedience, etc. That has to take primacy over all other matters.

In connection with this, Scoot recently ranked his hierarchy of obedience, which was God - the Church - the civil authorities.

Oddly enough, my hierarchy mirrors his, but my understanding of what it means to obey God is very different from his. From my perspective, Scoot disobeyed God when he chose to go against his conscience in connection to his employment situation. Though he may think otherwise, his actual hierarchy looks more like this:

Civil authorities - the Church - God.

Big difference. The only question remaining is who or what are the civil authorities following?

I don't mean to pick on Scoot or single him out. He is not the only one, merely an example. Millions, if not billions of Christians are on the same path. Needless to say, this is not good.

Full disclosure - I can't say I fully trust you or your motivations, but this comment exchange has increased my respect for you as a Christian.

Reply
buckyinky
9/8/2022 14:15:49

I agree that the COVID nonsense presented a test, even a major test, both to Christians and to all people of good will. It seems pretty clear that God allowed the forces of evil to make a fairly unhindered and calculated move in the fight for souls. I am also dismayed by the response of leaders in the Church first of all, but also of the laity in general. From the first until now the most troubling thing has been the failure to confront the lies that have been at the root of the whole narrative. The masks, jabs, lockdowns, etc. are awful, but are secondary to the radical lies that have been foisted upon us. Known liars offered more lies, and by and large we willingly believed them. We all ought to have known better.

I suppose I depart from you in thinking that this had an *essential* effect on the Church. Many, nay most, bishops and priests used poor judgment, perhaps some even with conscientious ill will, and scandalized the faithful, who in turn went on to scandalize more of the faithful. Clearly the failure was widescale and pervasive. And yet, this bad behavior didn't change the fact that the bishops and priests retain their mandate by Christ as ministers of His gospel. Even the fact that I, using what I think is good reason, cannot any longer trust them to do the right thing in standing up to evil in bringing God's grace through the Sacraments does not change the fact that they have been anointed by God to do so. It is this essential characterstic of the Church and her ministers that I hold onto in faith, and I pray that her pastors in particular repent and be true in their behavior, making it match with who they are in reality.

Reply
Francis Berger
9/8/2022 22:40:05

@ buckyinky - I have no qualms about what you have outlined in your second paragraph as long as it doesn't lead to blind obedience and the abandonment of conscience.

As the "Dark Emperor" Bruce Charlton noted on another thread, "The current situation is - it seems - unprecedented in world history. I mean a world and all major institutions aiming purposively and strategically against God and creation (including nature). In other words, the global rule of demonic evil. This ought to be obvious to any Christian, however the institutional churches are included in this strategic evil. Those who refuse to.make personal discernment will therefore be led to obey those who are active agents of the demonic agenda. As we see all around us..."

Look, you may not know this, but I attend Mass regularly here in my village. My son even serves as an altar boy. I'm not the rabid anti-church heretic people paint me out to be. (OK, I am a bit of a heretic, but anyway.)

As I mentioned to Kristor in a comment a moment ago on another thread, my biggest beef with externals like tradition, doctrine, scripture, etc., is this -- Christians often use these things to justify and rationalize disobeying conscience, the aboriginal Vicar of Christ (Catechism 1897-1927). Christians also tend to use these things to obfuscate their conformity and pusillanimity, especially when it comes to the System. This abuse of tradition, scripture, doctrine is dangerous territory -- it should worry trads immensely. It certainly worries me immensely.

lea
9/8/2022 06:05:27

In a broad sense 2020 has polarized the world. We have the 'new normal' believers, that have been sucked into the weird utopia that they know very little about, yet found comforting, and the discerning folks that reject all of it.

From a historical perspective it's difficult to make sense of, going by an immense number of sources and the near impossibility to verify their authenticity.

Hollyweird has been in the business of inverting for a while, but they symbolically tore down a monument lately signalling a project concluded perhaps. You could say there is nothing intrinsically wrong about Disney, but...

Anyone with a constructive spiritual view of our world should be wary of what is happening right now, i sure am.

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    Picture

    RSS Feed

    Blog and Comments

    Blog posts tend to be spontaneous, unpolished, first draft entries ranging from the insightful and periodically profound to the poorly-argued and occasionally disparaging.
     

    Comments are moderated. Anonymous comments are never published (please use your name or a pseudonym). 

    Emails welcome:

    f er en c ber g er (at) h otm   ail (dot) co m
    Blogs/Sites I Read
    Bruce Charlton's Notions
    Meeting the Masters
    From The Narrow Desert
    Synlogos ✞ Aggregator
    New World Island  
    New World Island YouTube
    ​Steeple Tea
    Berdyaev.com
    Adam Piggott
    Fourth Gospel Blog
    The Orthosphere
    Junior Ganymede

    Archives

    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    July 2018
    May 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    November 2016
    June 2016
    March 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    July 2015
    April 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    October 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013
    August 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012

    Picture
    A free PDF is also available in My Work. 
Powered by Create your own unique website with customizable templates.